Discussion:
Lenin's Ubiquitous Useful Idiots
(too old to reply)
alohacyberian
2005-06-22 11:56:16 UTC
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Useful Idiots

LENIN is supposed to have referred to blind defenders and apologists for the
Soviet Union in the Western democracies as "useful idiots." Yet even Lenin
might have been surprised at how far these useful idiots would carry their
partisanship in later years -- including our own times.
~ Thomas Sowell, "Useful Idiots_, _Jewish World Review_, 1 Elul, 5760
~ http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell090100.asp
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alohacyberian
2005-06-22 23:34:19 UTC
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"alohacyberian" <***@att.net> wrote in message news:Alcue.1005385$***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I guess I'm not the only one accused of making up the
alohacyberian
2005-06-22 23:34:20 UTC
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"alohacyberian" <***@att.net> wrote in message news:Alcue.1005385$***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I guess I'm not the only one who's been accused of "making up" the ubiquitous
"useful idiot" quote. ;-P

"Teri did not come up with the term 'Useful Idiot.' Lenin did. 'Useful
idiots' were those gullable, well-intentioned people in Western democracies
who became apologists for the, shall we say, excesses of the new Soviet
regime. You know, things like murdering dissenters, torture, rape, etc. They
helped Lenin and friends deflect any criticism over things like carrying out
three times more political executions in three months than the czars had from
1825-1917. But then as Stalin pointed out, "One death is a tragedy; a million
is a statistic."

Today the term is used for members of the America-is-always-wrong club who
most recently have been enablers for Saddam Hussein.

If you can't get enough Useful Idiots, be sure to read _Useful Idiots: How
Liberals Got It Wrong in the Cold War and Still Blame America First_, by Mona
Charen.
~ Teri O'Brien
~ http://www.teriobrien.com/usefulidiots/default.asp
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Chris Havel
2005-06-23 03:52:07 UTC
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Post by alohacyberian
I guess I'm not the only one who's been accused of "making up" the ubiquitous
"useful idiot" quote. ;-P
"Teri did not come up with the term 'Useful Idiot.' Lenin did.
From http://wolfgangvonskeptik.mu.nu/archives/046987.html >>

"I telephoned the reference department of the Timberland Regional
Library, which serves the five-county, predominantly rural district of
southwestern Washington state in which I live. I was on a deadline, I
explained, and wanted to use Lenin¹s 'useful idiots' quote in an
Internet column, but I wanted the full passage in which the term had
occurred and not just the phrase, because before I employed it, I wanted
to make certain the context was accurate and that I had indeed chosen
the proper tool for the job at hand.

The reference librarian, an articulate and helpful woman named Heather,
called me back exactly as promised and read me the following:

'Lenin, it is said, once described left-liberals and social democrats as
Œuseful idiots,¹ and for years anti-communists have used the phrase to
describe Soviet sympathizers in the West, sometimes suggesting that
Lenin himself talked about "useful idiots in the West." But the
expression does not appear in Lenin¹s writing. We get queries on "useful
idiots of the West" all the time, declared Grant Harris, senior
reference librarian at the Library of Congress, in the spring of 1987.
We have not been able to identify this phrase among his published works.'

The source of this passage is a work entitled 'They Never Said It: a
Book of Fake Quotes, Misquotes, and Misleading Attributions,' authored
by Paul F. Boller Jr. and John George, published by Oxford University
Press in 1989.

The text goes on to explain that the phrase apparently first appeared in
a John Birch Society pamphlet labeling President Ronald Reagan a 'useful
idiot' because of some agreement he had negotiated with the Soviet
Union."
--
C
alohacyberian
2005-06-23 09:30:16 UTC
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Post by Chris Havel
Post by alohacyberian
I guess I'm not the only one who's been accused of "making up" the ubiquitous
"useful idiot" quote. ;-P
"Teri did not come up with the term 'Useful Idiot.' Lenin did.
From http://wolfgangvonskeptik.mu.nu/archives/046987.html >>
"I telephoned the reference department of the Timberland Regional
Library, which serves the five-county, predominantly rural district of
southwestern Washington state in which I live. I was on a deadline, I
explained, and wanted to use Lenin¹s 'useful idiots' quote in an
Internet column, but I wanted the full passage in which the term had
occurred and not just the phrase, because before I employed it, I wanted
to make certain the context was accurate and that I had indeed chosen
the proper tool for the job at hand.
The reference librarian, an articulate and helpful woman named Heather,
Yes, yes, that's been posted here before (interestingly if you do a fairly
thorough Google search, you'll discover at least a dozen people who spoke to
that elusive "Heather" at the library which I think your source said is in
Washington State. Heather DOES get around.) Anyway, it's kind of
mind-boggling that those who so desperately want to believe that their hero,
Vlad Lenin never called them "useful idiots" are completely closed to the
prospect that the authors of that book could very well have been mistaken and
it does in fact appear in several places in Lenin's and even Stalin's works
and utterances. Priceless. And even more astonishing is the kneejerk that
believes if Lenin never said it, the statement is, therefore, invalid!
Unbelievable! Whether Lenin is the author or not, there really have been and
are ample armies of "useful idiots" to Communism in General and
Marxism-Leninism in particular. Why is that so hard for Lefties to grasp?
Simple, Lefties steadfastly refuse to grasp anything they don't want to
grasp! KM

"Lenin, father of the Soviet Union, had a name for people like Mr. [Sean]
Penn: 'Useful idiots.' Lenin's successor, Stalin, was even able to dupe
Walter Duranty, the New York Times correspondent in Moscow whose Pulitzer
Prize-winning reporting helped convince the world that no
government-orchestrated famine was occurring in the Ukraine."
~ Louis Proyect, "[Marxism] Useful Idiots"
~ http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism/2004-September/013892.html
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Fenris
2005-06-23 22:00:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Chris Havel
Post by alohacyberian
I guess I'm not the only one who's been accused of "making up" the ubiquitous
"useful idiot" quote. ;-P
"Teri did not come up with the term 'Useful Idiot.' Lenin did.
From http://wolfgangvonskeptik.mu.nu/archives/046987.html >>
"I telephoned the reference department of the Timberland Regional
Library, which serves the five-county, predominantly rural district of
southwestern Washington state in which I live. I was on a deadline, I
explained, and wanted to use Lenin¹s 'useful idiots' quote in an
Internet column, but I wanted the full passage in which the term had
occurred and not just the phrase, because before I employed it, I wanted
to make certain the context was accurate and that I had indeed chosen
the proper tool for the job at hand.
The reference librarian, an articulate and helpful woman named Heather,
Yes, yes, that's been posted here before (interestingly if you do a fairly
thorough Google search, you'll discover at least a dozen people who spoke
to that elusive "Heather" at the library which I think your source said is
in Washington State. Heather DOES get around.) Anyway, it's kind of
mind-boggling that those who so desperately want to believe that their
hero, Vlad Lenin never called them "useful idiots" are completely closed
to the prospect that the authors of that book could very well have been
mistaken and it does in fact appear in several places in Lenin's and even
Stalin's works and utterances. Priceless. And even more astonishing is the
kneejerk that believes if Lenin never said it, the statement is,
therefore, invalid! Unbelievable! Whether Lenin is the author or not,
there really have been and are ample armies of "useful idiots" to
Communism in General and Marxism-Leninism in particular. Why is that so
hard for Lefties to grasp? Simple, Lefties steadfastly refuse to grasp
anything they don't want to grasp! KM
"Lenin, father of the Soviet Union, had a name for people like Mr. [Sean]
Penn: 'Useful idiots.' Lenin's successor, Stalin, was even able to dupe
Walter Duranty, the New York Times correspondent in Moscow whose Pulitzer
Prize-winning reporting helped convince the world that no
government-orchestrated famine was occurring in the Ukraine."
~ Louis Proyect, "[Marxism] Useful Idiots"
~ http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism/2004-September/013892.html
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website
Well, you have proved that a lot of people refer to this fake quote. What
you haven't proved, because you can't, is that it is a real quote. Its an
urban legend, the fact that a lot of people believe its true doesn't mean
that it is. Get over it, Hula Boy. The more you sputter and protest, the
more pathetic you appear. You were wrong. Just admit it and move on.
alohacyberian
2005-06-24 01:58:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenris
Well, you have proved that a lot of people refer to this fake quote. What
you haven't proved, because you can't, is that it is a real quote. Its an
urban legend, the fact that a lot of people believe its true doesn't mean
that it is. Get over it, Hula Boy. The more you sputter and protest, the
more pathetic you appear. You were wrong. Just admit it and move on.
I see you're still trying to insult me into telling you the places in Lenin's
writings where the term "useful idiot" appears. LOL! Keep trying, you're only
admitting that you have difficulty admitting when you're wrong - so you
assume I'm the same. You can tell your accuser's fears and confessions by his
accusations. KM

Perhaps she was blinded by a hatred of U.S. policies. Maybe she was seeking
to shift attention from terrorist crimes. But one thing's certain: When
Amnesty International's Secretary-General Irene Zubeida Khan called the
Guantanamo Bay detention facility the "Gulag of our times" (reportedly
adding, "Ironic that this should happen as we mark the 60th anniversary of
the liberation of Auschwitz"), her words sprung from either deep ignorance or
deliberate deception.

Comparing Guantanamo's tropical Caribbean detention center with Soviet
dictator Josef Stalin's hellish frozen concentration camps makes about as
much sense as calling the London police "Nazis." My grandfather perished in
the gulag, as did tens of millions of others, and I am incensed at Amnesty's
gall in trivializing their suffering for political purposes.

By ignoring the real threat to human rights — including those of women in the
Islamic world, and the children and women raped and enslaved in Darfur —
Amnesty and Khan are playing into the hands of terrorists hell-bent on
destroying the West. Islamists may manipulate some anti-American elements in
the human-rights community — people they consider, to borrow Lenin's phrase,
"useful idiots." But in the long term, they have no use for Irene Khan,
Amnesty International or their misguided agenda.
~ Ariel Cohen, "A real gulag: Terrorism's 'useful idiots' ignore genuine
threats', _Houston Chronicle, June 18, 2005, 9:27PM
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alohacyberian
2005-06-23 09:29:59 UTC
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V. I. Lenin referred to apologists for the brutality of the Soviet state and
the worldwide socialist cause as “useful idiots.” Predominant among the
intellectual elitists that have controlled the social institutions of the
West since the beginning of the Twentieth Century--government, business,
education, and mass communication--these “useful idiots” have been in the
vanguard of the march of tyranny, oppression, and murder across the globe for
the last century. Their influence and lasting destruction has been pervasive
across several generations of American society as well. Lenin’s epithet, no
longer exclusive to the intellectual elite, has come full circle: We are now
a land plagued with useful idiots.
~ Harry Goslin, "A Land Plagued with Useful Idiots"
~ http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/goslin/goslin3.html
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Fenris
2005-06-23 22:11:33 UTC
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Post by alohacyberian
V. I. Lenin referred to apologists for the brutality of the Soviet state
and the worldwide socialist cause as "useful idiots." Predominant among
the intellectual elitists that have controlled the social institutions of
the West since the beginning of the Twentieth Century--government,
business, education, and mass communication--these "useful idiots" have
been in the vanguard of the march of tyranny, oppression, and murder
across the globe for the last century. Their influence and lasting
destruction has been pervasive across several generations of American
society as well. Lenin's epithet, no longer exclusive to the intellectual
elite, has come full circle: We are now a land plagued with useful idiots.
~ Harry Goslin, "A Land Plagued with Useful Idiots"
~ http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/goslin/goslin3.html
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website
You should note that none of the "solid references" do more than mention the
quote. No one says where it came from.

As I have said before, I don't disagree with the concept. There are
certainly many "useful idiots" around willing to excuse and support the
activities of tyrants and would-be tyrants. Alohacyberian, himself (or
herself, who knows) would be a perfect example of a "useful idiot" in his
blind support of Bush and Co, who are chipping away at our civil liberties
day by day, trying to pervert our democracy through fear.
alohacyberian
2005-06-24 01:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenris
You should note that none of the "solid references" do more than mention
the quote. No one says where it came from.
I've never posted any "solid references" - all mine have been secondary. I'll
glady post primary references when someone else does. It's interesting to me
that you assail me for using secondary references, when those of the other
persuasion have also used only secondary references. The usual Fenris double
standard at work? KM

"However, that got me thinking. The "useful idiots" quote is attributed to
Lenin, and is supposed to be him describing left-wingers who weren't Party
members but followed the Party line - fellow travellers."
~ "Justic" nickname of a Scot who lives in San Francisco
~ http://www.20six.co.uk/justic/archive/2004/07/30/bcc3rkxt8a8o.htm
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Eraq
2005-06-24 02:17:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Fenris
You should note that none of the "solid references" do more than mention
the quote. No one says where it came from.
I've never posted any "solid references" - all mine have been secondary. I'll
glady post primary references when someone else does.
You're a liar. Go away.
No One You Know
2005-06-24 02:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eraq
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Fenris
You should note that none of the "solid references" do more than mention
the quote. No one says where it came from.
I've never posted any "solid references" - all mine have been secondary. I'll
glady post primary references when someone else does.
You're a liar.
You're an idiot
Post by Eraq
Go away.
Learn to use a killfile.
alohacyberian
2005-06-24 04:04:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by No One You Know
Post by Eraq
You're a liar.
You're an idiot
Post by Eraq
Go away.
Learn to use a killfile.
I don't use a killfile and I have no trouble ignoring the likes of "Eraq"
when it strikes my fancy. Then again, I suppose such activity requires an IQ
above that of a squid. KM

Who and what are the "useful idiots"?

Lenin called them "useful idiots,": Those people living in liberal
democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian
ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people
who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a
fascinating question, one still with us today.
~ http://www.bcrevolution.ca/useful_idiots.htm
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alohacyberian
2005-06-24 04:04:21 UTC
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Post by Eraq
You're a liar. Go away.
Ah, another deep dollop of discourse and rousing repartee from an elite
Leftwinger. KM

"I was surprised to read how the Russian revolution was won with only a
minuscule number of committed communist activists. A smart fellow named
Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov, better known as Lenin, remarked that nothing could
have been achieved without what he called the 'useful idiots'."
~ Paul F. Rogan, "Useful Idiots" reprint from _Canadian Access to Firearms_,
05 December 2000
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Robert Miller
2005-06-24 14:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Eraq
You're a liar. Go away.
Ah, another deep dollop of discourse and rousing repartee from an elite
Leftwinger. KM
"I was surprised to read how the Russian revolution was won with only a
minuscule number of committed communist activists. A smart fellow named
Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov, better known as Lenin, remarked that nothing could
have been achieved without what he called the 'useful idiots'."
~ Paul F. Rogan, "Useful Idiots" reprint from _Canadian Access to
Firearms_, 05 December 2000
--
Not to mention a lot of American dollars and British pounds being circulated
in
the right places at the right times.
Post by alohacyberian
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
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Robert Miller
"The people always get the government they deserve!"
Proud member of www.libertydollar.org
alohacyberian
2005-06-24 22:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Miller
Post by alohacyberian
"I was surprised to read how the Russian revolution was won with only a
minuscule number of committed communist activists. A smart fellow named
Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov, better known as Lenin, remarked that nothing could
have been achieved without what he called the 'useful idiots'."
~ Paul F. Rogan, "Useful Idiots" reprint from _Canadian Access to
Firearms_, 05 December 2000
--
Not to mention a lot of American dollars and British pounds being
circulated in
the right places at the right times.
Well said, and there was a lot of cash from a lot of other countries as well.
KM

A more complete example of his remarks from which I posted previously is:

Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies
who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect
were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom
and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question,
one still with us today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of
appeasement, reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to
inhibit the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical
Islam.

Sheer ignorance is a tempting explanation for the persistent willingness of
the free to attack the foundations of their own freedom and to ignore or
rationalize the forces that would destroy them. Totalitarian societies are
masters of disinformation, propaganda, and outright lies, the bigger the
better. How many generations of starry-eyed leftists made pilgrimages to the
old Soviet Union to gawk at any number of Potemkin villages and other
cardboard-and-tinsel stage-sets for the socialist paradise?

So too today ignorance of Middle Eastern history and the true nature of
Islamic society and values makes it easier for many to misinterpret the
motives of Islamic terrorists and thugs like Hussein.
~ Bruce S. Thornton, _FrontPageMagazine_, "The Chorus of Useful Idiots",
November 1, 2002
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alohacyberian
2005-06-24 01:58:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenris
activities of tyrants and would-be tyrants. Alohacyberian, himself (or
herself, who knows) would be a perfect example of a "useful idiot" in his
blind support of Bush and Co, who are chipping away at our civil liberties
Yes, but "useful idiots" as an idiom or descriptive remark refers to those
who support Communism and its many front organizations, nothing else. You,
like others before you, are trying to pervert the term and give it a
one-size-fits all flavor. In that, you err. KM

The phrase "useful idiots", describing pro-Soviet flacks, apologists and
lickspittles in the capitalist West, was allegedly coined by Vladimir Lenin
his own bad self. Charen finds it more than appropriate to describe more
modern liberals and the "blame America first" crowd worldwide.
~ Unsigned book review of _Useful Idiots..._ by Mona Charen
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alohacyberian
2005-06-24 04:04:24 UTC
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"alohacyberian" <***@att.net> wrote in message news:sNJue.1014987$***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I'm telling anyone who'll listen - Howard Dean is a most useful idiot if ever
there was one! Didn't Lenin or Stalin coin the phrase useful idiots? Is it
any wonder where Dean gets his marching orders?

I'd seriously doubt George W. Bush would have won once, let alone twice -
without useful idiots like Howard Dean coming out of the DNC.
~ Nuts - I forgot to save the citation, oh, well.
--
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Fenris
2005-06-24 23:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Fenris
activities of tyrants and would-be tyrants. Alohacyberian, himself (or
herself, who knows) would be a perfect example of a "useful idiot" in
his blind support of Bush and Co, who are chipping away at our civil
liberties
Yes, but "useful idiots" as an idiom or descriptive remark refers to those
who support Communism and its many front organizations, nothing else. You,
like others before you, are trying to pervert the term and give it a
one-size-fits all flavor. In that, you err. KM
In a previous post, you applied it to liberals that are, supposedly,
supporting Islamic dictators and fanatics. You can't have it both ways. It
has been used in many contexts to describe people that support ideas that
are against their own interest. I wouldn't describe you as "useful", but
I'm sure Bush and his cronies would consider you, and your ilk, as "useful
idiots".
Post by alohacyberian
The phrase "useful idiots", describing pro-Soviet flacks, apologists and
lickspittles in the capitalist West, was allegedly coined by Vladimir
Lenin his own bad self. Charen finds it more than appropriate to describe
more modern liberals and the "blame America first" crowd worldwide.
~ Unsigned book review of _Useful Idiots..._ by Mona Charen
Perfect example! Someone you have quoted many times has redefined what
"useful idiots" means today. You really should read your own posts. LOL
Post by alohacyberian
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alohacyberian
2005-06-25 00:19:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Fenris
activities of tyrants and would-be tyrants. Alohacyberian, himself (or
herself, who knows) would be a perfect example of a "useful idiot" in
his blind support of Bush and Co, who are chipping away at our civil
liberties
Yes, but "useful idiots" as an idiom or descriptive remark refers to those
who support Communism and its many front organizations, nothing else. You,
like others before you, are trying to pervert the term and give it a
one-size-fits all flavor. In that, you err. KM
Fenny, are you getting senile in your old age? For the last six years I've
posted quotes that contradict other quotations I've posted. I didn't think
there was anyone here addlepated enough to believe that just because I post a
quote that I necessarily agree with it. That's hilarious! Or are you just
trying to keep up with the other comedians in the group? Not to mention, I
reserve the right to change my mind - something anathema to your rigidity and
stubborness. ;-) KM
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alohacyberian
2005-06-25 00:19:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenris
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Fenris
activities of tyrants and would-be tyrants. Alohacyberian, himself (or
herself, who knows) would be a perfect example of a "useful idiot" in
his blind support of Bush and Co, who are chipping away at our civil
liberties
Yes, but "useful idiots" as an idiom or descriptive remark refers to those
who support Communism and its many front organizations, nothing else. You,
like others before you, are trying to pervert the term and give it a
one-size-fits all flavor. In that, you err. KM
In a previous post, you applied it to liberals that are, supposedly,
supporting Islamic dictators and fanatics. You can't have it both ways.
It has been used in many contexts to describe people that support ideas
that are against their own interest. I wouldn't describe you as "useful",
but I'm sure Bush and his cronies would consider you, and your ilk, as
"useful idiots".
Uh, yes, while discussing the etiology of expressions, naturally I would
stick to their original meanings. But, phrases and expressions do change and
sometimes become broader over time. Sometimes they evolve away from the
original meaning, sometimes their original meaning becomes almost meaningless
(lock, stock and barrel) in a literal sense and sometimes they come to mean
the opposite of their original meanings and sometimes they become totally
different, e.g. "redneck" which was originally a slang term in New York City
environs to designate Irish Catholics. Pretty simple, huh? But, thanks for
the laugh. KM

Amir Taheri, editor of the Paris-based "Politique Internationale,"
perceptively notes that most protestors marching across the globe in the
recent anti-war effort are, "citizens who, prompted by idealism or boredom,
are always prepared to play the role of 'useful idiots,' as Lenin used to
call them."
~ Michael Katz, "The 'useful idiots' of Western New York", _Campus Times
Online_ [student newspaper at the University of Rochester], April 21, 2005
~
http://www.campustimes.org/media/paper371/news/2003/03/06/Opinions/The-useful.Idiots.Of.Western.New.York-387678.shtml
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Robert Miller
2005-06-23 17:12:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Useful Idiots
LENIN is supposed to have referred to blind defenders and apologists for the
Soviet Union in the Western democracies as "useful idiots." Yet even Lenin
might have been surprised at how far these useful idiots would carry their
partisanship in later years -- including our own times.
~ Thomas Sowell, "Useful Idiots_, _Jewish World Review_, 1 Elul, 5760
~ http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell090100.asp
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Not to go off on a tangent but Lenin was financed by some of the wealthiest
and
best know American industrialists. Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie and others
of the Teddy Roosevelt crowd. Why would wealthy Americans finance the most
radical of the Russian revolutionaries?

Robert Miller
"The people always get the government they deserve!"
Proud member of www.libertydollar.org
alohacyberian
2005-06-24 01:58:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Miller
Not to go off on a tangent but Lenin was financed by some of the wealthiest
and
best know American industrialists. Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie and others
of the Teddy Roosevelt crowd. Why would wealthy Americans finance the most
radical of the Russian revolutionaries?
What you say is absolutely true and the answer to your question is:
ignorance. Naturally Lenin wasn't forthright about his background, his
philosphies, his goals or his objectives. The Russian Revolution would have
failed had it not been for Henry Ford. But, in their behalf, it must be
remembered that many of those contributions were made to Lenin & co. while
the Czar still ruled Russia and the benefactors opposed the Czar and saw the
Bolsheviks as an opportunity to open commerce with Russia. What most
Americans don't realize is that the Bolshevik Revolution occured after the
Czar was overthrown and a Constitutional Democracy had been put into place.
Many of the American industrialists were hoodwinked and went into something
without thorough knowledge. Henry Ford, a late comer to the scene wasn't so
ignorant as he was disinformed and also championed Hitler. KM
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Robert Miller
2005-06-24 02:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Robert Miller
Not to go off on a tangent but Lenin was financed by some of the
wealthiest and
best know American industrialists. Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie and others
of the Teddy Roosevelt crowd. Why would wealthy Americans finance the most
radical of the Russian revolutionaries?
ignorance. Naturally Lenin wasn't forthright about his background, his
philosphies, his goals or his objectives. The Russian Revolution would
have failed had it not been for Henry Ford. But, in their behalf, it must
be remembered that many of those contributions were made to Lenin & co.
while the Czar still ruled Russia and the benefactors opposed the Czar and
saw the Bolsheviks as an opportunity to open commerce with Russia. What
most Americans don't realize is that the Bolshevik Revolution occured
after the Czar was overthrown and a Constitutional Democracy had been put
into place. Many of the American industrialists were hoodwinked and went
into something without thorough knowledge. Henry Ford, a late comer to the
scene wasn't so ignorant as he was disinformed and also championed Hitler.
KM
--
What you say is true, but it was known that Lenin was a Marxist. Jacob
Schif a
prime backer of the Bolshevik also helped raise money for Japan so they
could
and did defeat Russia in the Japan / Russo war of 1904. Russian prisoners
of war
in Japan were indoctrinated in Bolshevism while interned. The seeds of
mutiny and
revolution were planted. Later when the Bolsheviks took power there were
naval
vessels bombarding the St. Petersburg palace.

What is not widely known about the Bolshevik party is it was almost entirely
Jewish.
That they went on a campaign and killed millions of Christians across
Russia.
Post by alohacyberian
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
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Robert Miller
"The people always get the government they deserve!"
Proud member of www.libertydollar.org
alohacyberian
2005-06-24 06:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Miller
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Robert Miller
Not to go off on a tangent but Lenin was financed by some of the
wealthiest and
best known American industrialists. Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie and
others
of the Teddy Roosevelt crowd. Why would wealthy Americans finance the most
radical of the Russian revolutionaries?
ignorance. Naturally Lenin wasn't forthright about his background, his
philosophies, his goals or his objectives. The Russian Revolution would
have failed had it not been for Henry Ford. But, in their behalf, it must
be remembered that many of those contributions were made to Lenin & co.
while the Czar still ruled Russia and the benefactors opposed the Czar and
saw the Bolsheviks as an opportunity to open commerce with Russia. What
most Americans don't realize is that the Bolshevik Revolution occured
after the Czar was overthrown and a Constitutional Democracy had been put
into place. Many of the American industrialists were hoodwinked and went
into something without thorough knowledge. Henry Ford, a late comer to the
scene wasn't so ignorant as he was disinformed and he also championed
Hitler. KM
--
What you say is true, but it was known that Lenin was a Marxist. Jacob
Schif a
prime backer of the Bolshevik also helped raise money for Japan so they
could
and did defeat Russia in the Japan / Russo war of 1904. Russian prisoners
of war
in Japan were indoctrinated in Bolshevism while interned. The seeds of
mutiny and
revolution were planted. Later when the Bolsheviks took power there were
naval
vessels bombarding the St. Petersburg palace.
What is not widely known about the Bolshevik party is it was almost
entirely Jewish.
That they went on a campaign and killed millions of Christians across
Russia.
I don't think the bulk of the people who were killed in Russia were killed
because they were Christians as opposed to being Jewish or anything else. The
early Bolsheviks were anti-religion - period and their reasons for wholesale
slaughter of their people weren't usually for purely religious reasons.

Granted, Judiasm was heavily represented among early Communists and Jews had
been a part of the philosophical roots of socialism for centuries. Judaic
thought has a great deal that would set the stage for socialism. Karl Marx,
though not raised Jewish, was steeped in Jewish ideology from his Jewish
parents, their friends and his Jewish teachers. Because he was raised
Catholic in a Lutheran country, and did a lot of his seminal research and
writing in an Episcopal country, perhaps he saw the conflicts in different
religions and drew the conclusion that religion is the opiate of the people
not forseeing that opiates would become the religion of some people. In spite
of the predominance of Jews among the Bolsheviks, the Jews were also heavily
represented among the Mensheviks. In fact the word, "menshevik" could pass as
a Yiddish word, mensche [mentsh] being a Yiddish word for a man or person of
integrity and honor. Also in the early Communist movement in the United
States there were many Jews among them. The longtime head of the American
Communist Party, Gus Hall, was of Jewish lineage. Like other Communists,
Yasser Arafat, Vladimir Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, etc. "Hall" wasn't his real name.
His birth name was Arvo Kustaa Halberg, though his family was not religious
according to him, probably because his father, Matt Halberg, was one of the
founding fathers of the American Communist Party in which his mother was also
very active. Many Jews who left Europe in the 20th Century did not continue
to practice their religion in the United States due to the dire consequences
of having done so in the "old country". A lot of them were ripe for entry
into the early American Communist Party. Prior to the Bolshevik Revolution,
Jews had had a very bad time of it for centuries in the Russian Empire and
were eager to participate in a political party that claimed to offer them
equality. Many of them suffered the same fate as Lev Davidovich Bronstein,
better known as Leon Trotsky who was murdered by Stalin's henchmen even
though he had once headed the Soviet Army and had been Chief of Soviet
Foreign Affairs. While Lenin favored Jews, Stalin did not. KM

Although officially Jews have never made up more than five percent of the
country's total population, they played a highly disproportionate and
probably decisive role in the infant Bolshevik regime, effectively dominating
the Soviet government during its early years. Soviet historians, along with
most of their colleagues in the West, for decades preferred to ignore this
subject. The facts, though, cannot be denied.

With the notable exception of Lenin (Vladimir Ulyanov), most of the leading
Communists who took control of Russia in 1917-20 were Jews. Leon Trotsky (Lev
Bronstein) headed the Red Army and, for a time, was chief of Soviet foreign
affairs. Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon) was both the Bolshevik party's executive
secretary and -- as chairman of the Central Executive Committee -- head of
the Soviet government. Grigori Zinoviev (Radomyslsky) headed the Communist
International (Comintern), the central agency for spreading revolution in
foreign countries. Other prominent Jews included press commissar Karl Radek
(Sobelsohn), foreign affairs commissar Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamenev
(Rosenfeld) and Moisei Uritsky.

Lenin himself was of mostly Russian and Kalmuck ancestry, but he was also
one-quarter Jewish. His maternal grandfather, Israel (Alexander) Blank, was a
Ukrainian Jew who was later baptized into the Russian Orthodox Church.

A thorough-going internationalist, Lenin viewed ethnic or cultural loyalties
with contempt. He had little regard for his own countrymen. "An intelligent
Russian," he once remarked, "is almost always a Jew or someone with Jewish
blood in his veins."
[...]
In the Communist seizure of power in Russia, the Jewish role was probably
critical.

Two weeks prior to the Bolshevik "October Revolution" of 1917, Lenin convened
a top secret meeting in St. Petersburg (Petrograd) at which the key leaders
of the Bolshevik party's Central Committee made the fateful decision to seize
power in a violent takeover. Of the twelve persons who took part in this
decisive gathering, there were four Russians (including Lenin), one Georgian
(Stalin), one Pole (Dzerzhinsky), and six Jews.
[...]
David R. Francis, United States ambassador in Russia, warned in a January
1918 dispatch to Washington: "The Bolshevik leaders here, most of whom are
Jews and 90 percent of whom are returned exiles, care little for Russia or
any other country but are internationalists and they are trying to start a
worldwide social revolution."

The Netherlands' ambassador in Russia, Oudendyke, made much the same point a
few months later: "Unless Bolshevism is nipped in the bud immediately, it is
bound to spread in one form or another over Europe and the whole world as it
is organized and worked by Jews who have no nationality, and whose one object
is to destroy for their own ends the existing order of things."

The Bolshevik Revolution," declared a leading American Jewish community paper
in 1920, "was largely the product of Jewish thinking, Jewish discontent,
Jewish effort to reconstruct."

As an expression of its radically anti-nationalist character, the fledgling
Soviet government issued a decree a few months after taking power that made
anti-Semitism a crime in Russia. The new Communist regime thus became the
first in the world to severely punish all expressions of anti-Jewish
sentiment. Soviet officials apparently regarded such measures as
indispensable. Based on careful observation during a lengthy stay in Russia,
American-Jewish scholar Frank Golder reported in 1925 that "because so many
of the Soviet leaders are Jews anti-Semitism is gaining [in Russia],
particularly in the army [and] among the old and new intelligentsia who are
being crowded for positions by the sons of Israel."

Immediately after the [Bolshevik] Revolution, many Jews were euphoric over
their high representation in the new government. Lenin's first Politburo was
dominated by men of Jewish origins

"Anyone who had the misfortune to fall into the hands of the Cheka," wrote
Jewish historian Leonard Schapiro, "stood a very good chance of finding
himself confronted with, and possibly shot by, a Jewish investigator." In
Ukraine, "Jews made up nearly 80 percent of the rank-and-file Cheka agents,"
reports W. Bruce Lincoln, an American professor of Russian history.
(Beginning as the Cheka, or Vecheka) the Soviet secret police was later known
as the GPU, OGPU, NKVD, MVD and KGB.)

In light of all this, it should not be surprising that Yakov M. Yurovksy, the
leader of the Bolshevik squad that carried out the murder of the Tsar and his
family, was Jewish, as was Sverdlov, the Soviet chief who co-signed Lenin's
execution order.
~ Institute for Historical Review
~ http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

For many years Lenin's propagandists insisted that Lenin had had nothing to
do with the murder of the Romanov Czar and his wife and children. And many of
Lenin's fans vociferously denied that Lenin had any involvement in the
murders and a great propaganda campaign was launched to absolve Lenin of all
guilt. Unfortunately, the men around Lenin had written about their part in
the assassinations. Lenin's bodyguard, Alexei Akimov, recounted in writing
how he personally delivered Lenin's execution order. Akimov also saved the
original telegraph tape ordering the killings. Sverdlov, who also signed the
order wrote about his part in the murders. Trotsky also wrote of his
conversations with Sverdlov regarding Lenin's decision to eliminate the
Romanovs. Of course you can found thousands of secondary sources saying Lenin
had no hand in extinguishing the Romanov Dynasty, but, primary sources,
including Lenin's own words, indicate otherwise. Perhaps Lenin was assisted
in part by those whom he called "useful idiots". KM
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Mitchell Holman
2005-06-24 13:04:11 UTC
Permalink
The longtime head of the American Communist
Party, Gus Hall, was of Jewish lineage. Like other Communists, Yasser
Arafat, Vladimir Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, etc.
Oh yes, Aloha.

DO tell us about the "jewish lineage" of
Arafat and Ho Chi Minh.

This should be fun..............
Robert Miller
2005-06-24 14:16:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitchell Holman
The longtime head of the American Communist
Party, Gus Hall, was of Jewish lineage. Like other Communists, Yasser
Arafat, Vladimir Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, etc.
Oh yes, Aloha.
DO tell us about the "jewish lineage" of
Arafat and Ho Chi Minh.
This should be fun..............
This is an interesting cite! Quoted underneath my post, but I can't
find it in this thread.

You or he could have mentioned Adolph Hitler was also part Jewish.
Oh and don't forget a radical anti-Jewish Russian nationalist politician.
I know I'll massacre his name but I'll attempt it anyway Zgerinofski.
Apparently had the office of vital records in his hometown broken into
to destroy his birth records.

Robert Miller
"The people always get the government they deserve!"
Proud member of www.libertydollar.org
Mitchell Holman
2005-06-24 14:56:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Miller
Post by Mitchell Holman
The longtime head of the American Communist
Party, Gus Hall, was of Jewish lineage. Like other Communists, Yasser
Arafat, Vladimir Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, etc.
Oh yes, Aloha.
DO tell us about the "jewish lineage" of
Arafat and Ho Chi Minh.
This should be fun..............
This is an interesting cite!
It is definately one for the "Aloha Kneeslapper" file.

It would fun to ask for proof, but I fear the only
response would be the usual "Got Googe?" or "I am
not going to do your homework for you" retreat. Too bad.




Quoted underneath my post, but I can't
Post by Robert Miller
find it in this thread.
You or he could have mentioned Adolph Hitler was also part Jewish.
Oh and don't forget a radical anti-Jewish Russian nationalist politician.
I know I'll massacre his name but I'll attempt it anyway Zgerinofski.
Apparently had the office of vital records in his hometown broken into
to destroy his birth records.
Robert Miller
"The people always get the government they deserve!"
Proud member of www.libertydollar.org
--
Mitchell Holman

"Women think men's fantasies are disgusting,
and men think women's fantasies are boring"
-- Bill Maher --
alohacyberian
2005-06-24 22:13:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Miller
This is an interesting cite! Quoted underneath my post, but I can't
find it in this thread.
You or he could have mentioned Adolph Hitler was also part Jewish.
Oh and don't forget a radical anti-Jewish Russian nationalist politician.
I know I'll massacre his name but I'll attempt it anyway Zgerinofski.
Apparently had the office of vital records in his hometown broken into
to destroy his birth records.
Yes, Hitler's paternal grandfather was Jewish. I knew one Jewish family who
changed their name from Hitler so something less damning!

Breaking into offices of vital statistics and destroying birth records wasn't
an uncommom practice among Communists of the Bolshevik Revolution or
international Communists to this day. You are possibly referring to Grigori
Zinoviev (nee: Radomyslsky) who headed Comintern, the revolutionary agency
for spreading revolution in foreign countries. Marx and early revolutionaries
believed that Communism wouldn't work until the whole world became Communist,
so it was encumbant on them to spread the faith.

"Two weeks prior to the Bolshevik 'October Revolution' of 1917, Lenin
convened a top secret meeting in St. Petersburg (Petrograd) at which the key
leaders of the Bolshevik party's Central Committee made the fateful decision
to seize power in a violent takeover. Of the twelve persons who took part in
this decisive gathering, there were four Russians (including Lenin), one
Georgian (Stalin), one Pole (Dzerzhinsky), and six Jews.

"To direct the takeover, a seven-man 'Political Bureau' was chosen. It
consisted of two Russians (Lenin and Bubnov), one Georgian (Stalin), and four
Jews (Trotsky, Sokolnikov, Zinoviev, and Kamenev). Meanwhile, the Petersburg
(Petrograd) Soviet -- whose chairman was Trotsky -- established an 18-member
'Military Revolutionary Committee' to actually carry out the seizure of
power. It included eight (or nine) Russians, one Ukrainian, one Pole, one
Caucasian, and six Jews. Finally, to supervise the organization of the
uprising, the Bolshevik Central Committee established a five-man
'Revolutionary Military Center' as the Party's operations command. It
consisted of one Russian (Bubnov), one Georgian (Stalin), one Pole
(Dzerzhinsky), and two Jews (Sverdlov and Uritsky).
~ Op. Cit.

Oh, now that I think about it, are you talking about the aggressive Russian
extreme nationalist Vladimir Zjirinovski, leader of the populist Liberal
Democratic Party in Russia?
Isn't he the one who started a fistfight on live television and previously
had appeared in public drunk and spouting profanity? Or is it someone else?

USEFUL IDIOTS

Lenin called them “Useful Idiots,” the intellectuals, writers, politicians
and socialist activists in the West who, while not Party members, promoted
the Bolshevik scheme of world revolution. His successor Stalin continued the
use of the phrase and today, even after the total collapse of the communist
system (estimated even by left-wing historians to have been responsible for
over 100 million deaths over its 70-year genocidal run), the Useful Idiots
don’t appear to have received the word. They just go right on spouting the
party line.

You know the people I’m talking about. They are for peace and always against
war, even after September 11. They think patriotism is racist and abusive.
They think people who achieve do so at the expense of others, that
European-descended Americans purposefully deny education and income to all
others. They fight religion on every front, most notably in the public
schools. (Okay to teach Islam, not okay to have Christmas pageants). They
think a free-market economy has ruined the environment. They say they adhere
to the principles of equality while pushing for special status for certain
groups.

They see Western civilization as racist, chauvinist and homophobic and strive
to denigrate the reality of its success at very turn. They have no sense of
humor and rarely let facts get in the way of their positions. They never
stand and fight, preferring to retreat while labeling their opponents
“abusive”
~ Bernie Reeves, "Useful Idiots", Metro Magazine, February/March 2003,
Volume 3, Number 1
~ http://www.metronc.com/issues/issue02-03_02/MUCS/mucsq.html
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to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
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Robert Miller
2005-06-25 19:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Robert Miller
This is an interesting cite! Quoted underneath my post, but I can't
find it in this thread.
You or he could have mentioned Adolph Hitler was also part Jewish.
Oh and don't forget a radical anti-Jewish Russian nationalist politician.
I know I'll massacre his name but I'll attempt it anyway Zgerinofski.
Apparently had the office of vital records in his hometown broken into
to destroy his birth records.
Yes, Hitler's paternal grandfather was Jewish. I knew one Jewish family
who changed their name from Hitler so something less damning!
Breaking into offices of vital statistics and destroying birth records
wasn't an uncommom practice among Communists of the Bolshevik Revolution
or international Communists to this day. You are possibly referring to
Grigori Zinoviev (nee: Radomyslsky) who headed Comintern, the
revolutionary agency for spreading revolution in foreign countries. Marx
and early revolutionaries believed that Communism wouldn't work until the
whole world became Communist, so it was encumbant on them to spread the
faith.
"Two weeks prior to the Bolshevik 'October Revolution' of 1917, Lenin
convened a top secret meeting in St. Petersburg (Petrograd) at which the
key leaders of the Bolshevik party's Central Committee made the fateful
decision to seize power in a violent takeover. Of the twelve persons who
took part in this decisive gathering, there were four Russians (including
Lenin), one Georgian (Stalin), one Pole (Dzerzhinsky), and six Jews.
"To direct the takeover, a seven-man 'Political Bureau' was chosen. It
consisted of two Russians (Lenin and Bubnov), one Georgian (Stalin), and
four Jews (Trotsky, Sokolnikov, Zinoviev, and Kamenev). Meanwhile, the
Petersburg (Petrograd) Soviet -- whose chairman was Trotsky -- established
an 18-member 'Military Revolutionary Committee' to actually carry out the
seizure of power. It included eight (or nine) Russians, one Ukrainian, one
Pole, one Caucasian, and six Jews. Finally, to supervise the organization
of the uprising, the Bolshevik Central Committee established a five-man
'Revolutionary Military Center' as the Party's operations command. It
consisted of one Russian (Bubnov), one Georgian (Stalin), one Pole
(Dzerzhinsky), and two Jews (Sverdlov and Uritsky).
~ Op. Cit.
Oh, now that I think about it, are you talking about the aggressive
Russian extreme nationalist Vladimir Zjirinovski, leader of the populist
Liberal Democratic Party in Russia?
Isn't he the one who started a fistfight on live television and previously
had appeared in public drunk and spouting profanity? Or is it someone else?
That's him he promised the Russian Army they would be wearing short
pants and swimming in the Medetrainian Sea. If he were President.
Post by alohacyberian
USEFUL IDIOTS
Lenin called them "Useful Idiots," the intellectuals, writers, politicians
and socialist activists in the West who, while not Party members, promoted
the Bolshevik scheme of world revolution. His successor Stalin continued
the use of the phrase and today, even after the total collapse of the
communist system (estimated even by left-wing historians to have been
responsible for over 100 million deaths over its 70-year genocidal run),
the Useful Idiots don't appear to have received the word. They just go
right on spouting the party line.
You know the people I'm talking about. They are for peace and always
against war, even after September 11. They think patriotism is racist and
abusive. They think people who achieve do so at the expense of others,
that European-descended Americans purposefully deny education and income
to all others. They fight religion on every front, most notably in the
public schools. (Okay to teach Islam, not okay to have Christmas
pageants). They think a free-market economy has ruined the environment.
They say they adhere to the principles of equality while pushing for
special status for certain groups.
They see Western civilization as racist, chauvinist and homophobic and
strive to denigrate the reality of its success at very turn. They have no
sense of humor and rarely let facts get in the way of their positions.
They never stand and fight, preferring to retreat while labeling their
opponents "abusive"
~ Bernie Reeves, "Useful Idiots", Metro Magazine, February/March 2003,
Volume 3, Number 1
~ http://www.metronc.com/issues/issue02-03_02/MUCS/mucsq.html
--
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visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/
alohacyberian
2005-06-26 09:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Miller
Post by alohacyberian
Oh, now that I think about it, are you talking about the aggressive
Russian extreme nationalist Vladimir Zjirinovski, leader of the populist
Liberal Democratic Party in Russia?
Isn't he the one who started a fistfight on live television and previously
had appeared in public drunk and spouting profanity? Or is it someone else?
That's him he promised the Russian Army they would be wearing short
pants and swimming in the Medetrainian Sea. If he were President.
Since the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, a spate of books has come out
exposing the foibles of leftists and how they wittingly or unwittingly aid
and abet the enemies of the United States. One of the latest entries is
syndicated columnist Mona Charen's Useful Idiots: How Liberals Got It Wrong
in the Cold War and Still Blame America First (Regnery, 2003). In it, Ms.
Charen has provided interesting and valuable historical background, exposing
liberal fallacy point by point. The book's title comes from a phrase
attributed to Vladimir Lenin, founder of the Russian Communist Party and
leader of the 1917 Russian Revolution. Lenin is said to have applied the term
useful idiots to Western liberals who unsuspectingly advanced communist aims
by opposing American and other efforts to check Soviet progress and prowess.

Useful Idiots reminded this writer of a jaw-dropping incident of a few years
ago. Several people were discussing a recent public opinion poll on the
medical use of marijuana. It was colloquially dubbed the "pot poll," but
people frequently slipped and called it the "poll pot." At one point, a
twenty-something woman chimed in, "That's actually the name of a real person.
He's, like, a Cambodian dignitary or something."

In point of fact, Pol Pot was a savage communist dictator who executed or
starved up to 2 million Cambodian people in one of the bloodiest regimes in
world history. Calling him "like, a Cambodian dignitary or something" is
similar to calling Osama bin Laden "like, a Saudi philanthropist or
something."

To a world beset by this kind of historical ignorance, Ms. Charen's book is a
welcome relief.
~ Leslie Carbone, "A Useful Exposé", _BreakPoint_, August 15, 2003
~
http://www.pfm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Columnists&CONTENTID=10304&TEMPLATE=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
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Robert Miller
2005-06-26 14:01:47 UTC
Permalink
Robert Miller said:

One of the best books describing the left, what they have done, what they
want to do and why. Is called "The Creature from Jekyll Island, A second
look at the Federal Reserve"

It goes into the history of banking (Usury) dating back almost 2000 years.
The history of the Rothschild banking dynasty. The inside skinny (details)
of
the Japan/Russo war, secret financing of the Bolshevik party, how and by
who.
In their leaders own words & writings. The actual reason the U.S. got
involved
with world war I.
Not to mention many other smaller banking scandals that never made the news.
Like the Chrysler bail out deal the banks struck with Chrysler before they
went
to Congress to get the bail out loan. The banks made their money back the
very
next day after Congress approved the loan, because they extracted from
Chrysler
a very good stock option for pennies on the dollar.

A person can not read this book and look at world history in the same light
ever
again. It illuminates the whole reason governments go to war. PROFITS!!!

Even the war of Northern Aggression was instigated by European bankers who
wanted the Union to borrow hugh sums of money, foiled by Lincoln and the
U.S.
Notes. And the European governments (France & England) who wanted to
dissect
U.S. territory as their own. Foiled by a threat of war with Russia who
stood by the
United States against European aggression. Even to the point of sending
warships to
help in the blockade of southern ports.

Robert Miller
"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to
protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There
is no safe store of value. If there were, the government
would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the
case of gold.... The financial policy of the welfare state
requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to
protect themselves.

"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades
against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the
'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of
this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property
rights."
- Alan Greenspan; "Gold and Economic Freedom"

Proud member of www.libertydollar.org
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Robert Miller
Post by alohacyberian
Oh, now that I think about it, are you talking about the aggressive
Russian extreme nationalist Vladimir Zjirinovski, leader of the populist
Liberal Democratic Party in Russia?
Isn't he the one who started a fistfight on live television and
previously had appeared in public drunk and spouting profanity? Or is it
someone else?
That's him he promised the Russian Army they would be wearing short
pants and swimming in the Medetrainian Sea. If he were President.
Since the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, a spate of books has come
out exposing the foibles of leftists and how they wittingly or unwittingly
aid and abet the enemies of the United States. One of the latest entries
is syndicated columnist Mona Charen's Useful Idiots: How Liberals Got It
Wrong in the Cold War and Still Blame America First (Regnery, 2003). In
it, Ms. Charen has provided interesting and valuable historical
background, exposing liberal fallacy point by point. The book's title
comes from a phrase attributed to Vladimir Lenin, founder of the Russian
Communist Party and leader of the 1917 Russian Revolution. Lenin is said
to have applied the term useful idiots to Western liberals who
unsuspectingly advanced communist aims by opposing American and other
efforts to check Soviet progress and prowess.
Useful Idiots reminded this writer of a jaw-dropping incident of a few
years ago. Several people were discussing a recent public opinion poll on
the medical use of marijuana. It was colloquially dubbed the "pot poll,"
but people frequently slipped and called it the "poll pot." At one point,
a twenty-something woman chimed in, "That's actually the name of a real
person. He's, like, a Cambodian dignitary or something."
In point of fact, Pol Pot was a savage communist dictator who executed or
starved up to 2 million Cambodian people in one of the bloodiest regimes
in world history. Calling him "like, a Cambodian dignitary or something"
is similar to calling Osama bin Laden "like, a Saudi philanthropist or
something."
To a world beset by this kind of historical ignorance, Ms. Charen's book
is a welcome relief.
~ Leslie Carbone, "A Useful Exposé", _BreakPoint_, August 15, 2003
~
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Max Masters!!!
2005-06-27 05:00:00 UTC
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Post by Robert Miller
Robert Miller
"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to
protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There
is no safe store of value. If there were, the government
would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the
case of gold.... The financial policy of the welfare state
requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to
protect themselves.
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades
against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the
'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of
this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property
rights."
- Alan Greenspan; "Gold and Economic Freedom"
Proud member of www.libertydollar.org
The only people who benefit from moving to a gold standard are people who
own gold. Inflation creates economic winners and losers. One big loser
during
high inflation is banks. Do you really think the entire banking institution
(as just
one subset of the financial sector) is going to stand by while inflation
runs out
of control? Espcecially with the lessons since Volker put the brakes on? Not
to mention that The Fed might have a say about inflation.

Is inflation going to rise in the future? I believe the answer is yes.
Sometime around
the year 2020 the US is going to have to start paying off a lot of US bonds.
But since
foreigners own so many of them, it's nonUS people that are going to be hurt.
alohacyberian
2005-07-16 05:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Masters!!!
The only people who benefit from moving to a gold standard are people who
own gold. Inflation creates economic winners and losers. One big loser
during
high inflation is banks. Do you really think the entire banking institution
(as just
one subset of the financial sector) is going to stand by while inflation
runs out
of control? Espcecially with the lessons since Volker put the brakes on? Not
to mention that The Fed might have a say about inflation.
Is inflation going to rise in the future? I believe the answer is yes.
Sometime around
the year 2020 the US is going to have to start paying off a lot of US bonds.
But since
foreigners own so many of them, it's nonUS people that are going to be hurt.
No one will be hurt; the economy will have continued to expand to the point
that redeeming the bonds will be all in a day's work. The scare-tactics of
the doomsayers didn't come true regarding the Reagan Administration and they
won't bear fruit regarding the current administration. Compared to many other
nations on the planet in the last 50 years, the United States has had no
problems with inflation and it's a safe bet that statement will still be true
in the next 50 years, apologies to the gloom-and-doom set. KM
--
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visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
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Max Masters!!!
2005-07-17 04:31:24 UTC
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Post by alohacyberian
Post by Max Masters!!!
The only people who benefit from moving to a gold standard are people who
own gold. Inflation creates economic winners and losers. One big loser
during
high inflation is banks. Do you really think the entire banking institution
(as just
one subset of the financial sector) is going to stand by while inflation
runs out
of control? Espcecially with the lessons since Volker put the brakes on? Not
to mention that The Fed might have a say about inflation.
Is inflation going to rise in the future? I believe the answer is yes.
Sometime around
the year 2020 the US is going to have to start paying off a lot of US bonds.
But since
foreigners own so many of them, it's nonUS people that are going to be hurt.
No one will be hurt; the economy will have continued to expand to the point
that redeeming the bonds will be all in a day's work. The scare-tactics of
the doomsayers didn't come true regarding the Reagan Administration and they
won't bear fruit regarding the current administration. Compared to many other
nations on the planet in the last 50 years, the United States has had no
problems with inflation and it's a safe bet that statement will still be true
in the next 50 years, apologies to the gloom-and-doom set. KM
I wasn't trying to say that the US would have problems with inflation, just
that
inflation would increase moderately (whatever that means). At the same time,
I belive that there has been an 8 trillion change in federal fiscal
projections
under the Bush admin (3 billion suplus to 5 billion deficit). But those
numbers
get changed all the time.

Which "scare-tactics" that didn't come true I don't know.

alohacyberian
2005-06-24 22:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitchell Holman
The longtime head of the American Communist
Party, Gus Hall, was of Jewish lineage. Like other Communists, Yasser
Arafat, Vladimir Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, etc.
Oh yes, Aloha.
DO tell us about the "jewish lineage" of
Arafat and Ho Chi Minh.
ROTFLMAO! God, you're getting desperate! The statements, including what you
snipped were: "The longtime head of the American Communist Party, Gus Hall,
was of Jewish lineage. Like other Communists, Yasser Arafat, Vladimir Lenin,
Ho Chi Minh, etc. "Hall" wasn't his real name. His birth name was Arvo Kustaa
Halberg..." Most people recognize that a period at the end of the sentence
indicates that a new idea may be coming in the next sentence. Or did you miss
your period again?

Gee, I should know better than to have a mouth full of liquid when I open one
of your responses: I just spit bottled water all over my screen and keyboard!
The next door neighbor just came outside and yelled up to the window wanting
to know what we were laughing so hilariously about! We all had tears in our
eyes from laughing so hard! We invited him upstairs to enjoy the festivities
of belittling a Lefty. But, I must say, you did give an archetypal, albeit
humorous, example of how Leftwingers manipulate the words of others. No doubt
you were not expecting me to read your usual vapid retorts.

Maybe, I should give you the benefit of the doubt and just chalk it up to
stupidity. Oh, lordy that one was priceless! And you wonder why you guys do
so poorly on election day. Keep 'em comin', Mitch! KM
--
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visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
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Fenris
2005-06-24 23:51:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Mitchell Holman
The longtime head of the American Communist
Party, Gus Hall, was of Jewish lineage. Like other Communists, Yasser
Arafat, Vladimir Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, etc.
Oh yes, Aloha.
DO tell us about the "jewish lineage" of
Arafat and Ho Chi Minh.
ROTFLMAO! God, you're getting desperate! The statements, including what
you snipped were: "The longtime head of the American Communist Party, Gus
Hall, was of Jewish lineage. Like other Communists, Yasser Arafat,
Vladimir Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, etc. "Hall" wasn't his real name.
What Aloha is saying is not that these others were of Jewish lineage, he is
saying that "Hall" was not their real name, either. LOL!



His birth name was Arvo Kustaa
Post by alohacyberian
Halberg..." Most people recognize that a period at the end of the sentence
indicates that a new idea may be coming in the next sentence. Or did you
miss your period again?
Gee, I should know better than to have a mouth full of liquid when I open
one of your responses: I just spit bottled water all over my screen and
keyboard! The next door neighbor just came outside and yelled up to the
window wanting to know what we were laughing so hilariously about! We all
had tears in our eyes from laughing so hard! We invited him upstairs to
enjoy the festivities of belittling a Lefty. But, I must say, you did
give an archetypal, albeit humorous, example of how Leftwingers manipulate
the words of others. No doubt you were not expecting me to read your usual
vapid retorts.
Maybe, I should give you the benefit of the doubt and just chalk it up to
stupidity. Oh, lordy that one was priceless! And you wonder why you guys
do so poorly on election day. Keep 'em comin', Mitch! KM
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/
alohacyberian
2005-06-25 02:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenris
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Mitchell Holman
Oh yes, Aloha.
DO tell us about the "jewish lineage" of
Arafat and Ho Chi Minh.
ROTFLMAO! God, you're getting desperate! The statements, including what
you snipped were: "The longtime head of the American Communist Party, Gus
Hall, was of Jewish lineage. Like other Communists, Yasser Arafat,
Vladimir Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, etc. "Hall" wasn't his real name.
What Aloha is saying is not that these others were of Jewish lineage, he is
saying that "Hall" was not their real name, either. LOL!
Lenin reputedly referred to these Western intellectual defenders of Communism
as "useful idiots," and this is the sobriquet Mona Charen confers on them in
the title of her book chronicling their statements and activities. As a
reference source, it will be absolutely invaluable to scholars for
generations to come. For the rest of us, it provides a sharp reminder of just
how stubbornly many liberals resisted this country's efforts to contain, and
ultimately defeat, the deadly threat of international Communism.

Her book does not contain, alas, the remarkable statement that constituted my
own first introduction to a useful idiot. It blazes in my memory across the
58 years since it was uttered. It was 1946. The Cold War was just beginning,
and I was listening to a radio debate on the subject between Clare Boothe
Luce and Rev. Harry F. Ward, former chairman of the American Civil Liberties
Union and an ornament of New York's Union Theological Seminary (professor of
Christian ethics there, I believe), who was already famous as an apologist
for Communism. Mrs. Luce made a scathing reference to the Soviet Union's
"concentration camps," to which Dr. Ward promptly responded, "Those are not
concentration camps. They are personal rehabilitation camps, and they have
done those people a world of good!" It is testimony to the impact that piece
of idiocy had on me that I remember every word, and am prepared to bet money
that my quotation of it is practically verbatim.
~ Tom McMahon, "Useful Idiots", 05/06/2004
~ http://www.tommcmahon.net/2004/05/useful_idiots.html
--
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visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/
alohacyberian
2005-06-26 09:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by alohacyberian
Post by Fenris
What Aloha is saying is not that these others were of Jewish lineage, he
is saying that "Hall" was not their real name, either. LOL!
Lenin reputedly referred to these Western intellectual defenders of
Communism as "useful idiots," and this is the sobriquet Mona Charen confers
on them in the title of her book chronicling their statements and
activities. As a reference source, it will be absolutely invaluable to
scholars for generations to come. For the rest of us, it provides a sharp
reminder of just how stubbornly many liberals resisted this country's
efforts to contain, and ultimately defeat, the deadly threat of
international Communism.
Her book does not contain, alas, the remarkable statement that constituted
my own first introduction to a useful idiot. It blazes in my memory across
the 58 years since it was uttered. It was 1946. The Cold War was just
beginning, and I was listening to a radio debate on the subject between
Clare Boothe Luce and Rev. Harry F. Ward, former chairman of the American
Civil Liberties Union and an ornament of New York's Union Theological
Seminary (professor of Christian ethics there, I believe), who was already
famous as an apologist for Communism. Mrs. Luce made a scathing reference
to the Soviet Union's "concentration camps," to which Dr. Ward promptly
responded, "Those are not concentration camps. They are personal
rehabilitation camps, and they have done those people a world of good!" It
is testimony to the impact that piece of idiocy had on me that I remember
every word, and am prepared to bet money that my quotation of it is
practically verbatim.
~ Tom McMahon, "Useful Idiots", 05/06/2004
~ http://www.tommcmahon.net/2004/05/useful_idiots.html
Since these conventions have been notoriously reluctant to admit anyone who
opposes regional government, and since the NWCC has received money from the
Campaign for English Regions, it is hard not to conclude that these gentlemen
may have allowed themselves to be exploited as what Lenin called "useful
idiots".
~ Christopher Booker, "Round up all the Useful Idiots", _Christopher
Booker's Notebook_
~ http://www.neilherron.co.uk/800/articles/7.htm
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visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
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alohacyberian
2005-06-24 04:04:22 UTC
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Post by Robert Miller
Not to go off on a tangent but Lenin was financed by some of the wealthiest
and
best know American industrialists. Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie and others
of the Teddy Roosevelt crowd. Why would wealthy Americans finance the most
radical of the Russian revolutionaries?
Lenin would often refer to the egalitarian air-heads, and liberal "lovers of
humanity," so firmly entrenched in the fields of academia, publishing, the
media, and politics, as his "Useful Idiots." Unfortunately, these real or
dissembling naïfs -- who never saw a totalitarian, collectivist butcher they
didn't adore -- are still ensconced in positions of power in America: one of
them even became president.
~ http://www.grecoreport.com/useful_idiots_update_'01-'02.htm
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Paul Hovnanian
2005-06-26 20:38:45 UTC
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So then the current version would be Karl Rove's useful idiot.
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